CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview With Pennsylvania Congressman Lou Barletta
Interview
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ACOSTA: It certainly is.
All right, Nick Watt, thank you very much.
And joining me now, Representative Lou Barletta. He's a Republican on the Homeland Security Committee. He is also running for the U.S. Senate against Democratic incumbent Bob Casey in Pennsylvania.
Congressman, thanks for joining us.
Last week, the HHS secretary, Alex Azar, said he could use a government portal to find any child separated from their parent, he said, within seconds. So, why can't the administration meet these court-ordered deadlines to reunite families?
And doesn't it say to you that they just don't have a plan to begin with to reunite these families?
REP. LOU BARLETTA (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Yes, thanks, Jim.
No, I think it's more important that we make sure, that the government make sure that these kids are safe and that they're put in the right hands of their real parents, if they are.
Since January, in the first five months of 2018, there's been a 315 percent, 315 percent increase in fake families that have come to the border. And we know in the Obama administration there have been cases where children have been released to parents or guardians, and actually they were either traffickers or drug cartel.
So I think it's more important to make sure that these kids are put in the safe hands and that the parents are who they say they are.
ACOSTA: Well, we don't want to overstate this issue of fake families, as you said there.
"The Washington Post" look the Department of Homeland Security data, and it found less than 1 percent of family units apprehended at the border turned out to be fraudulently posing as families.
So you don't want to overstate that, right? I mean, if it's a tiny fraction of 1 percent that are showing up there aren't perhaps authentic, aren't you overstating things a little bit there?
BARLETTA: Well, according to the White House, there has been a 315 percent increase in the fake families that have that have come to the border.
And, Jim, we don't want to see one child -- I don't think we want to see one child get into the hands of a drug cartel or a trafficker. So I think you want to err on the side of safety of the children.
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If we really care about these children...
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ACOSTA: But 99 percent of the cases are actual families; 99 percent of the cases, according to this -- "The Washington Post" looked at Department of Homeland Security data; 99 percent of the families are real.
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ACOSTA: And I guess I just want to ask you, should the government, should the Trump administration be separating kids from their parents if they don't have a process in place to put them back together, where they have to use DNA kits and so on? Does that make any sense to you?
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BARLETTA: Well, I think it makes sense to make sure that we have a 100 percent of children, especially under the ages of 5, are actually returned to their parents or true guardian.
And I don't want to see 1 percent. Maybe it's OK for some people, but I wouldn't want to see 1 percent given to a drug trafficker or a cartel.
But it really goes back to the whole point of what the problem is here, is, let's stop illegal immigration. We wouldn't even be talking about this if we secure the border and have enforcement on the interior.
And we wouldn't be dealing with this. Jim, do you know how many children and minors come to the border? They're dehydrated. They're starving. They have been sexually abused. There is nothing good about illegal immigration. And it creates the problem that we have.
ACOSTA: But what about these families that are showing up at the border all in one piece, parents with their children?
You supported that policy under the Trump administration when it was under way, when these families were being pulled apart. You supported that policy. Do you have any regrets for supporting that policy of pulling children away from their parents when they showed up at the border? Any regrets on that?
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BARLETTA: Well, I think -- I think that was the law. And the president was following the law.
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ACOSTA: Well, it wasn't the law. It was not the law. That was the way the Trump administration was interpreting the law.
They were saying, OK, instead of catch and release, instead of keeping these families together, they were taking the children away from the parents as a deterrent.
Do you regret supporting that policy when it was first implemented by the Trump administration?
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BARLETTA: Here's what I would say to you, Jim, is that I regret that the Obama administration was using catch and release, basically encouraging the problem that we have today, because all you needed to do is have a child and use that child as a visa to get into the United States.
So, it actually created the problem. So we can't ignore that catch and release makes the problem worse.
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ACOSTA: So, you would rather -- rather than release these families in whole, you would rather separate the children from the parents, is what you're saying?
BARLETTA: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not saying that. You're saying that.
I'm saying that let's not even have this problem at all. I don't want to see any child separated from their parent. But I don't want to see any child also given to the drug cartel or a trafficker that was -- and that is what was happening in cases under the Obama administration.
That's not right either.
ACOSTA: Is this policy designed to inflict suffering on people to deter them from coming into the country, do you think, this policy of separating children from their parents?
BARLETTA: No.
I think, when you have an open border policy, you're encouraging people to come to the United States.
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ACOSTA: What open border policy are you talking about, if you don't mind me asking, Congressman, because that -- it's strange, because we don't have an open border down on the border with Mexico.
We have enforcement that goes on. We have people who are picked up. There's fencing. There are portions that almost look like you have a wall on the border.
What does that mean, when you have an open border policy? We don't have that.
BARLETTA: Well, it means that, if we had a secure border, we would not have an illegal immigration problem.
So, if we have an illegal immigration problem, then obviously we have some open borders, or we wouldn't have the problem that we have that's getting worse.
And, Jim, it's not good. It's not fair to these kids. Many of these girls are sexually abused along the way. How can -- how can we be OK with that and children who are starving?
And the cartel, we know for a fact...
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ACOSTA: But why would you compound the problem?
If you have some children who are showing up in that condition, why would you compound the problem, when you have families showing up, they're trying to appeal for asylum and so on, and you're ripping apart families that come in all one piece, mother with child, and so on? Why would you compound that problem, compound that suffering?
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BARLETTA: How do you know they're one family? How can you say that, without knowing for sure? How can you say that? Because there's a woman, a man, and a child, that you're saying that is a family in whole?
ACOSTA: What evidence do you have that they're not...
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ACOSTA: Do you have any evidence that these families are showing up, and the parents and the kids are not a part of the same family?
Again, the Department of Homeland Security...
BARLETTA: Well, we do know.
ACOSTA: ... data that came in, it was analyzed by "The Washington Post," said only 0.1 percent in 2017 were fraudulently posing as a family.
BARLETTA: Well...
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ACOSTA: We have video from Boston showing a mother and a daughter. They were reunited after 55 days. I'm sure you have seen this video, Congressman, this mother and this child sobbing as they're reunited.
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These are some of the families that are being ripped apart. That is not a fraudulent family. That is a real family.
BARLETTA: And how can you ignore when a child is given to a trafficker and abused in the United States? Why aren't we showing those pictures?
ACOSTA: Well, Congressman, I'm asking you about this video right here that we're showing right now.
What about these families that are being ripped apart? What do you -- what do we say to these families? What do you say to them? You supported this policy, Congressman. What do you say to families like this who have been ripped apart?
BARLETTA: No, I want to see families kept together.
So, the best way to do that is to come into the country legally and not to have a problem that we're having here. What I don't want to be part of is having a child given to somebody who claims they're their parent and then will abuse that child because they're not.
I don't want to see one child harmed. I think we should make sure that all the kids are safe, unite the children with their parents. I don't want to see them separated. I have four daughters and eight grandchildren. I wouldn't want to be separated from them.
But I also don't want to see children given to somebody who is not really their parent. So, I think...
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ACOSTA: But I'm trying to figure out, Congressman, when we have data -- and facts matter and data, they obviously matter -- and when "The Washington Post" says they look at the Department of Homeland Security data, and it says that 0.01 percent in 2017, that those were fraudulent families, families posing as people that were all part of one family when they weren't, that is a tiny, tiny fraction of the overall influx of people coming in.
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BARLETTA: Jim, so "The Washington Post" is saying that. And I'm telling you the White House is saying that, in the first five months, there's been a 315 percent in fake families.
ACOSTA: But a 315 percent increase of 0.01 percent, that's still a tiny fraction, isn't it?
BARLETTA: Pretty sad for that tiny fraction, if it's your child.
ACOSTA: Yes.
I guess my question is, so, you're going to punish all of these families, you're going to use all these families as a deterrent to try to crack down on a tiny, tiny fraction of the people coming across the border.
BARLETTA: No, I don't want to punish anyone.
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ACOSTA: The other question I want to ask you, Congressman, was, you were saying earlier that the administration was following the law.
So, when the president signed that executive order to reverse this policy of family separation and zero tolerance, was -- how could he do that through executive order? You can't reverse a law through executive order.
BARLETTA: Well, the president also, as you said, reunited the children as well. And this is -- it's just the...
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ACOSTA: But he hasn't reunited them yet, right? They haven't been reunited, just to be clear.
BARLETTA: Well, I think what they want to do is make sure that -- they're not doing it to punish them. They're doing it to make sure that they're taking DNA to make sure that the person who is using that child or claims that child is theirs really is. I don't think the president should be condemned for wanting to make
sure that, when we know there are people who are using children just to get into the United States -- we know that's happening. And maybe "The Washington Post" says it's a small amount.
I disagree with that. But I'm not going to argue about the numbers.
ACOSTA: How can you disagree with data? How can you disagree with facts? That's DHS data.
BARLETTA: I don't believe everything I read in the newspaper. I'm sorry. I just don't believe everything I read in the newspaper.
ACOSTA: It's from the Department of Homeland Security. So the data is from the Department of Homeland Security, run by the Trump administration, by people in the administration, by the way, who are very hard line on the issue of immigration, like yourself.
BARLETTA: Well, I think -- I guess it comes down to the fact whether or not we are OK -- I am not -- whether we're OK just releasing with someone who claims to be their parent because there's a 20-day rule...
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ACOSTA: And are you OK with locking up these families all together?
There is also this issue of having to detain these families all together. Are you in favor of that, putting them on military bases, putting the armed forces in charge of acting as guards as these detention camps and so on?
BARLETTA: I am. I am.
ACOSTA: Is that what you want to see in this country?
BARLETTA: What's -- what's the option, Jim? What's your option?
ACOSTA: The option, obviously, is to release them, and perhaps supply them with ankle bracelets, so they show up.
Are you -- you would rather put them in detention than keep these families whole and in a situation where they're not being detained?
BARLETTA: So -- so -- so, do you believe that they can't take the ankle bracelets off, and that would not encourage more people to come into the United States?
That is why we have this problem, is because we're not enforcing our laws, we haven't enforced our laws, and we want people to come to America for an opportunity and to be safe and to have families together.
But crossing the border illegally is not the way to do it. And it's not good for anybody. It's not good for the children. It's not good for the parents. It's not good for the American people.
ACOSTA: All right, Congressman Lou Barletta, thank you for coming on and explaining your position on this issue.
BARLETTA: Thank you. Thank you.
ACOSTA: Thank you very much for your time.
BARLETTA: Thank you.
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